Released in May 1988 following the movie a few months prior, this book includes interviews, staff commentary, an encyclopedia, and much more.
The following is a translation of a roundtable interview with Yoshiki Tanaka (the original author of Legend of the Galactic Heroes), director Noboru Ishiguro, screenwriter Takeshi Shudo, and producer Masatoshi Tahara. In the book itself, this covers pages 50-57. My translator notes are indicated with numbered superscripts that match up with index numbers at the end. Enjoy!
**Please note this interview contains spoilers for episode 26 of the OVA**
“My Conquest is the Gold Standard of Anime”
Galactic Heroes Roundtable
On February 20th, 1988 in the Earth calendar, on Earth in the solar system, in a corner of the galaxy, in Shinjuku, Tokyo, Japan, four heroes gathered at a place called Ginga Aster(?). The four are Lobos Ishiguro, Flegel Shudo, Oberstein Tahara, and Tonio Tanaka. Yes, these four are the main staff and original author of the anime Legend of the Galactic Heroes. They have revealed various circumstances of the anime’s production. The content was as eloquent as Legend of the Galactic Heroes…!!! Please enjoy!
The story of the unbelievable anime adaptation
Question/Interviewer:
Today we are having a roundtable discussion about the anime Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and we have gathered together the main staff, including the original author, Yoshiki Tanaka. Before we get into the story of the Legend of the Galactic Heroes anime, we would like to ask Tanaka-sensei about his own experiences working in animation…
That is to say, anyone who is interested in the anime and has read the Legend of the Galactic Heroes novels will intuitively realize that the author is from the generation that watched Yamato [Space Battleship Yamato] and Gundam [Mobile Suit Gundam]. In the recently published special issue of SF Adventure about Legend of the Galactic Heroes, there is a color page introducing Tanaka-sensei’s room, and if you look at that, it’s immediately clear that Tanaka-sensei is a serious manga and anime fan (laughs).
Tanaka:
It’s true that I love anime, and in terms of my experience with animation, I’ve been watching anime since Astro Boy first started on TV, so in that sense you could say I’m from the “first generation of animation.”
As for comics, I read them like everyone else in elementary school, but I stopped for a bit in junior high. That was right when Kajiwara Ikki was at the peak of his career, so I had no connection to the stuff that everyone in my generation was crazy about, like Star of the Giants or Ashita no Joe. Then, when I became a university student and moved to Tokyo and was no longer under my parents’ watchful eye, I gradually started to show my true colors, and started reading again.
At that time, I started reading comics, but I wasn’t particularly interested in animation. However, when I was living alone in a boarding house, I ended up buying a TV, and whenever I turned it on, there was animation on the screen (laughs). The one that made the biggest impression on me was Space Battleship Yamato. Since then, I’ve been stuck in a quandary, and was surprised when I watched Gundam. From then on I would watch the first episode of any anime, no matter how trivial it was, and that’s the course I’ve followed to this day.
Q:
So you could say you’re one of the pioneers of today’s anime fans, or at least you’re an anime fan who’s taken the most orthodox path. So, when you found out that the novels you wrote were going to be made into an anime, were you happy about it?
Tanaka:
Well, long before that I was joking with a friend who said “Wouldn’t it be great if this were made into an anime?” And I replied, “Of course it would be, but there’s no way it will. How many years do you think that would take?” (laughs).
Then, in the summer of last year, I got a call from Tokuma Shoten saying, “A studio called Kitty Films has said they want to make an anime version of Legend of the Galactic Heroes, so they should be contacting you directly soon.” At first, rather than being happy, I just couldn’t believe it and wondered if someone somewhere was manipulating information (laughs).
Then, towards the end of summer, I got a call from Tahara-san about the anime adaptation, and I said, “Oh, what they said was true? So it wasn’t a lie.” So rather than being happy, I couldn’t believe it, and wondered if it was actually happening. And I still can’t believe it even now.
Q:
So I would like to ask Tahara-san, the person behind the anime adaptation, what was your motivation for making Legend of the Galactic Heroes into an anime?
Tahara:
Well, if you look at the history of the anime boom, I think it has trended towards the popularization of anime. In other words, what started out as children’s TV programs gained popularity with junior and senior high school students with Yamato, and then with Gundam it drew in university students, gradually becoming more popular with the general public. It took 20 years for that to happen.
I think that there is definitely an aspect to this, where our generation, who watched Astro Boy as children, entered society, and anime became mainstream. At that time, Yamato and Gundam were taking anime in a certain direction, and there was nothing left in that direction. It had been a while since we had seen any works that people in their 20s and 30s like us could say were interesting to watch.
So, I thought that if I made an anime along those lines, those people would come back and it would take anime to the mainstream again. With that in mind, I was looking at various works to see what would be good as a basis. While considering an original work, by sheer coincidence I came across Legend of the Galactic Heroes and thought, “Ah, this is it!” I thought that if I did this, I could probably make my wish come true in a big way. So I asked Tanaka-sensei to let me take charge of his original work.
Q:
So, once the decision was made to actually make an anime, why did you choose Shudō-san as the scriptwriter and Ishiguro-san as director?
Tahara:
I have been friends with Shudō-san for a long time, and as an example, there is a series called Sengoku Majin GoShogun for which Shudō-san was in charge of the original script. In GoShogun, the witty dialogue works really well, and I thought that would also apply to the conversations between the people on the Alliance side in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Also, if you try to tell the story through dialogue alone as in the original work, when you turn it into a film, it wouldn’t work out. To cleverly avoid that, you have to make sure those parts are connected properly. We thought that the most capable person we could trust with those aspects would be Shudō-san. The fact that he has also written the screenplay for Isabelle of Paris and is well versed in historical dramas is the reason we decided to ask him.
As for the director, it goes without saying that Ishiguro-san has worked on Yamato and Macross, and as I mentioned earlier, he has been creating works at the very forefront of the trend towards popularizing anime. Also, I thought it would be best to leave it to Ishiguro-san as the genre seems to be a good fit for him.
Q:
Did Tanaka-sensei have any requests regarding the composition of the anime’s staff?
Tahara:
On the contrary, it was more like, “We have gathered these people. What do you think?”
Q:
Ishiguro-san, you are quite a fan of science fiction novels, so I assume you started reading the Legend of the Galactic Heroes novels at a fairly early stage, right?
Ishiguro:
I’m sorry to say, but I didn’t know anything about them (laughs). The truth is that I read them for the first time when Tahara-san asked me if I would be the director. It’s true that I do read a lot of science fiction novels on a regular basis, but I tend to read translated hard science fiction, and I don’t read them to enjoy them as novels. Recently, I’ve only started reading those as a source of information to get hints and materials to help me think up ideas, unfortunately (laughs). So I stopped reading most novels that didn’t meet that purpose.
I borrowed the Legend of the Galactic Heroes novels from Tahara-san and read them, but I had a lot of trouble with the first volume (laughs). First of all, I couldn’t remember the names. Also, there were a lot of parts that used very difficult expressions, so it was like I was reading modern literature (laughs). But once I got through the first volume, the second and subsequent volumes were very easy to read and enjoy.
But at first, I couldn’t believe that this kind of novel was so popular with young people and sold so well. That’s because when I flipped through it, I saw that it was full of kanji, and you would think that young people today would stop reading just because of that (laughs). However, it’s good to go against expectations, so I think it’s amazing if he had factored that into his writing (laughs).
However, I thought that if I were to direct an anime adaptation of these novels, people like us would be able to understand the meaning a little more accurately and produce it better than someone younger could.
Q:
So, Ishiguro-san, did you immediately accept the offer to direct Legend of the Galactic Heroes without any hesitation?
Ishiguro:
I’m extremely grateful to Tahara-san for that, because at that time I was in a slump, to put it simply.
As you know, I’ve been running the studio since the days of Macross, and by the time we made Megazone [Megazone 23], we had more than 50 staff members. So, to be honest, just running the business was enough to keep my hands full. The young staff around me would say things like, “You’re getting old, so it’s time for you to retire and concentrate on management.” So I gradually started to feel the same way, and consciously distanced myself from directing. I thought I’d focus on management, but I don’t have the slightest talent for it to begin with (laughs).
The more I did it, the bigger the deficits became, and I got bogged down in a bad situation. So, two years ago, I thought about it and came to the conclusion that if I left the studio, nothing good would come of that, and so I would have to stick to directing and being in the studio for the rest of my life. After talking with everyone, we reduced the size of the studio to less than half. At that point, I decided to start over again.
That being said, work doesn’t come so easily. I wanted to work, but I was in a situation where there wasn’t any available. That’s when Tahara-san approached me about Legend of the Galactic Heroes. So in that sense, it filled me with fighting spirit, and I was grateful. Also, I thought I’d give it a try and go back to my roots, and I think it was great for me to be given this opportunity. I’ve been doing this job for a long time now, so when someone calls me “old,” I think to myself, “Maybe that’s true” (laughs).
Q:
However, it seems that Tahara-san was of the opposite opinion, preferring someone experienced rather than someone younger to be the director.
Ishiguro:
Certainly, when you look at anime on video today, it’s often the case that someone who has never done directing before is suddenly entrusted with making the entire thing. Then when the president of the production company sees a preview, he says he doesn’t understand it (laughs). So I started to feel that rather than just jumping at the chance to put out a new video production, I needed to have a more craftsman-like approach to the product. Also, if I wanted to honor Legend of the Galactic Heroes, I thought that this kind of production method was more appropriate.
So, I thought it would be boring if the anime was just a rehash of the original work, but on the other hand, I thought it wouldn’t produce very good results if it ran solely on the visuals either. In that sense, the producer’s approach was thoroughly respecting the original work from start to finish, and I think that was a very good thing in the end.
Q:
What about you, Shudō-san? Were you aware of the novels?
Shudō:
No. Or rather, I feel like I was tricked by this producer (laughs).
First, Tahara-kun called me to ask for advice, asking, “What do you think about doing a war movie? I’d like to do a film like The Enemy Below, in which enemies and allies fight without seeing each other but are aware of one another.” As we started to chat casually, we ended up saying, “Let’s do it,” and then he basically dropped all the novels in front of me, saying, “Um, I have an original novel series here” (laughs).
The scripts I had written up until then had been based on emotion, or rather, on my feelings at the time, so I would change the lines constantly in the dubbing studio. I was worried that I might forget the basics of writing drama. Also, I think that a lot of recent anime scripts don’t have the form of a proper story. So I thought it might be okay to try writing a proper, orthodox script here. It’s often said that scripts are all about calculations and mathematics, in other words, that the structure is very important. However, I don’t think that’s all there is to it. If you’re to be called a scriptwriter, you basically have to be able to do that sort of thing… I think it’s a battle of sensibility more than just having a good grasp of the basics. That is why I wanted to test myself to make sure I had not forgotten the basic techniques of screenwriting.
I’m grateful to Tahara-kun for giving me this kind of opportunity.
Reasons for using “Boléro”
Q:
But why did you decide on making a video release and movie?
Tahara:
It was originally a TV project. It’s such a long story, so I thought that a TV series would be the best format to recreate it, like a Taiga Drama[1]. In the current golden age of comic adaptations, it’s difficult for a novel adaptation to compete. To be honest, even if you give a novel to the people at the TV station, they won’t read it (laughs). Something as difficult to get into as Legend of the Galactic Heroes is especially a no-go.
So in the past, pilot films were often made for anime, and then the project was decided based on that, so I thought we would make one. However, even if we made a pilot film, we couldn’t just throw the money away. Now that a video market has been established, I thought it might be possible to make a video with the characteristics of a pilot film. On top of that, I thought this would be a good methodology for presenting the idea.
Also, separate from our plans, Tokuma Shoten had expressed interest in adapting it into a theatrical film, so we decided to work with them.
Q:
Why did you choose to adapt Gaiden I first?
Tahara:
Well you see, since it has the characteristics of a pilot film, I wanted to leave the main story alone in consideration of later story developments. Also, since the length was set at 60 minutes from the start, it was difficult to cover the first volume of the original work. If we went up to the Battle of Astarte, it would be difficult to grasp the full picture, but on the other hand, if we included Yang’s capture of Iserlohn, there would not be enough time. So we thought about which part would capture the essence of the whole story in one work, and decided on the latter half of Gaiden I.
Q:
Were you satisfied with that, Tanaka-sensei?
Tanaka:
In short, when it was decided that it would be made into an anime, I handed the original work over to Tahara-san. I knew that he would take good care of it and I could leave everything to him. Also, if Tahara-san asked me anything, I was planning on giving my personal opinion.
Even so, I was really humbled when it was decided that Shudō-san would write the script and Ishiguro-san would direct. That’s because I watched Yamato and GoShogun as they aired, and the first tape I bought when I got my own VCR was the movie version of Sengoku Majin GoShogun (laughs).
So, to be honest, I was scared, wondering if I had been able to provide enough ingredients for the two of them to cook with. Later on, that fear diminished.
Q:
So, what did you think when you saw the finished anime? Were you satisfied with how it turned out?
Tanaka:
I have no complaints about it at all. They took the cheap Manzai[2] comedy I wrote and turned it into something so elegant that I’m worried some people might be fooled into liking it (laughs).
As for the music, it was so beautiful, and I was extremely grateful that it was able to fit perfectly into the world of the story within the 60-minute runtime.
Q:
Regarding the music, I heard that Tanaka-sensei went to Shudō-san’s room and they listened to the music together to decide on it…
Shudō:
Generally speaking, the biggest problem with this work was how to handle the battle scenes. It’s very difficult to visually depict an entire military operation, and while you can show a lot of things individually, I thought it would be impossible to illustrate the whole picture. Anyway, that battle was a war of attrition, so how could I convey that reality to the audience? I thought that music could do that.
I wondered what kind of music would be good for the audience to not get bored during the drawn out battles, and I thought maybe “Boléro”[3] would work. However, it would be bad if the choice was made arbitrarily by me. So I wanted to convey my vision to the original author and have him actually listen to it to see if he would be satisfied with “Boléro”, or if a song with a different image would be better. So I asked Tahara-san to have Tanaka-san actually listen to “Boléro”.
Q:
Ishiguro-san, as the director, did you have any reservations about using “Boléro”?
Ishiguro:
By pure coincidence, I had wanted to use “Boléro” in a battle scene once before. I had been thinking about it for a long time. It’s a very sensual piece of music. And if you pursue mecha to the extreme, you end up with something sensual. I thought “Boléro” was the perfect song to express something that can be seen beyond the repeated slaughter, and I had been thinking about using it someday. So when Tahara-san uttered the word “Boléro,” I immediately said, “Let’s go with it!”, and it was instantly decided.
After that, I immediately received a fan letter saying, “Please use ‘Walküre’[4] next time” (laughs).
Tanaka:
So, when it was decided to make an anime adaptation, there were people who came to me with various opinions, and they would always write to me asking for me to use Wagner’s music (laughs). On the other hand, when I found out that Wagner wasn’t used at all in the film, I felt like I had gotten my wish.
Shudō:
That’s because Wagner is always going to be the first thing to come up no matter what. But we decided not to go with that.
Tanaka:
Everyone always comes up with the same thing, don’t they? It’s such a common idea that I thought it was probably left out on purpose.
Q:
And why did you go to the trouble of recording it with the New Japan Philharmonic?
Tahara:
That was just a luxury (laughs). Just kidding. Shudō-san originally asked for music that sounded like “Boléro”, but we decided to just do the classical music as it is. Not to try to fake it with synthesizers, but to record it live with a full orchestra. In other words, we thought we could use the money we would spend on composing to instead organize the orchestra. So we ended up with a full orchestra of 80 people.
Shudō:
Then when we were recording, there were only about nine people in the audience listening (laughs).
Ishiguro:
That was extravagant.
Shudō:
It felt like I had my own personal orchestra.
Tahara:
That felt really good.
Shudō:
Something like that may never happen again in our lifetimes.
Ishiguro:
Agreed.
Differences between the novels and the anime
Q:
In the case of Legend of the Galactic Heroes, I think there are a lot of passionate fans of the novels, but what was the reaction of those fans to the anime adaptation?
Tanaka:
Before everyone actually saw it, to be honest, there were overwhelmingly more voices of opposition. In other words, people were saying that it would ruin the image of the series. However, what was really disappointing to me was the number of personal attacks on character designer Okuda Matsuri. I couldn’t respond to each one, and I thought that people would come to understand if they watched the film. Then after the screening, I received a lot of letters from people who had seen it, and from then on I didn’t get any from people who said they didn’t like it. In fact, most of the letters I received were from people who were against it beforehand but were glad they saw it, so I was really happy.
When it comes to character design, there will always be complaints no matter what, and it’s impossible to please everyone. There were all kinds of opinions. Some people said that Reuenthal was too old, and others said that Yang was too good-looking, and many other such cold-hearted views (laughs).
Tahara:
Opinions about Yang were completely divided. Some said he was too handsome, while others said he was ugly (laughs).
Q:
Ishiguro-san, when directing Legend of the Galactic Heroes, were there any points that you struggled with, or anything that you paid particular attention to?
Ishiguro:
Well, when you’re storyboarding or directing, you’re always coming up with ideas in picture form, so there’s a chance that things will slip away visually. It will become too exaggerated. I tried to keep that in check as much as possible and made the film with the original work in mind until the very end.
How should I put it? I was quite conscious of the aesthetic aspects when I made it. So I feel like it ended up being a little too bland. But I think it was better than just having everything lined up from the beginning. Also, it was my first time doing something so elegant, so I was a bit worried about whether I was refined enough to be able to keep up (laughs).
Although he is modest in calling it a cheap Manzai comedy routine, there’s no way he could get away with relying on that as the basis of the series (laughs), but I guess it would be funny if he really did it that way (big laugh). However, in today’s world where there are a lot of frivolous things, this work gives the impression of being refined, orthodox and dignified, so I felt that I needed to emphasize this in the visuals as well.
Shudō:
It’s the same with scripts. In Japan, there are a lot of movies and TV shows that are completely different from the work they are based on. They just borrow the name and characters and make it however they like. Without a book as the basis, it can be hard to get a project approved, and I think that’s unfortunate for the finished movie or TV show. It must be unfortunate for the author, and for the filmmakers, too, because an almost entirely original work is released under the author’s name… So if that’s the case, they shouldn’t use the book in the first place, and if they’re going to base it on something, I think they should at least respect that original work’s world.
However, just because you follow the original’s story literally doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve depicted the world of the original. Because I also write novels, I am very aware of the difference between novels and films. So presenting a novel as a film is, in essence, about how to distance it from the written novel and yet be as close as possible to the world of the original work.
Q:
Are there any differences between using a manga versus a novel as a basis?
Shudō:
Yes, manga is much closer to film than novels in that it is made up of pictures, so in many cases the scriptwriter can get away with just following the original story exactly. Even if the scriptwriter doesn’t use much imagination, they can still create a decent script.
In reality, there are definitely differences between manga books and films, and I think a script that doesn’t incorporate visual ideas shouldn’t really be called a script… But putting that aside, in the case of a novel, since it’s just text, the scriptwriter must be able to use a certain amount of originality to translate it into film.
So, in terms of developing screenwriters with originality, I think that working on an established written work is a good learning experience for when they have to write an original script in the future.
Q:
Also, I heard that you had a lot of conflicts with Producer Tahara-san…
Tahara:
It was fierce.
Q:
Specifically, what kind of fierce battle took place?
Shudō:
For example, in the novels, there is a distinctive way characters address each other using “卿” [kei][5]. It’s fine when you read it in the book. However, if you suddenly hear “卿は” [kei wa] when watching a video or a film, people who don’t know the character will think “What?” But as for the producer, he said “This is a distinctive feature of this work” (laughs). We discussed what to do about this phrase until 3am.
Q:
So what happened in the end?
Shudō:
In the end, we decided to refrain from using it this time, and instead plan on using it in the TV series.
Tahara:
Not only that, we decided not to use second person pronouns such as “きみ” [kimi] or “お前” [omae][6] at all.
Tanaka:
Indeed.
Shudō:
If we’re not using “卿” [kei], then we also can’t include terms like “お前” [omae], “あなた” [anata], or “きみ” [kimi] in the lines at all.
Q:
Wow. I hadn’t noticed that. As the author, what do you think about that?
Tanaka:
In the original work, especially in the dialogue of the Empire’s side, I consciously tried to use old-fashioned expressions. The reason is that when I was writing the novels, I had a strange confidence that it would never sell, so rather than worrying about what would sell, I thought I should just do what I wanted.
I wanted to make something that stands out, and since I’ve always liked classical Chinese writing, I wanted to use old expressions without ruining the overall context. That’s where the phrase “卿は” [kei wa] came from. But if you heard that kind of expression in the movie, you’d probably be wondering, “What on earth is this?” So I feel bad about that, but in a way I’m also looking forward to seeing how they handle that aspect (laughs).
In the original work, Reinhard says “卿は” [kei wa] to Captain Steinmetz, but it’s changed to “艦長は” [kanchō wa][7] in the film, and I thought, “Ah, there it is” (laughs).
The difficulties of adapting Legend of the Galactic Heroes into an anime
Q:
Also, I would like to ask Ishiguro-san, Legend of the Galactic Heroes is not a work that shows much movement in its animation, right? So, in that sense, I imagine you must have had a hard time directing it… Frankly speaking, did it frustrate you?
Ishiguro:
To tell you the truth, I was worried. After all, Reinhard just sits down in his chair and doesn’t get up (laughs). When he walks, he’s on auto-load (laughs). Reinhard’s movements are limited to just standing up from a chair, so I was worried that it would end up being like a Kamishibai[8].
Speaking of frustration, to be honest, I feel like it would be unbearable if the story ended here. I’m worried that there will be a backlash eventually. I would like to see the image of Reinhard with a sword, slashing away in a dignified manner. But was there a scene like that in the original? (laughs)
Tanaka:
Unfortunately, never directly…
Shudō:
Speaking of not moving, I thought about it even at the script stage. In short, I thought that if a person like Reinhard walked like an anime character, it would ruin the story. So I had the main characters, especially Reinhard, sit down and not move (laughs). I tried to keep them as still as possible. Also, considering the quality of the work, it would be strange to have a high-ranking military officer panic and run all around. After that, I left it up to the director to see how he would depict it.
Ishiguro:
That’s why we paid special attention to the animation of actions, such as when Reinhard stands up from his chair. Also, in this film, I didn’t use any unusual angles, only very ordinary ones. I was a little worried about whether it would still hold up, but I thought doing so would give a much fresher feeling than the overly elaborate angles I’ve been using recently.
Also, in the scene where Reinhard is sitting down, the horizontal divide is about one-third of the way up, which is what you might call the golden ratio. Therefore, the composition needs to be good to show this. Fortunately, Madhouse was very careful with the layout, finishing, and filming. They were a big help.
Shudō:
Another thing regarding the tone of the original work is that it basically avoids explaining emotions. How emotions change between each moment is not stated directly. Rather, only the developments and facts are presented, and it is written in such a way that the reader can imagine the rest in their own mind. So if you show too much when making it into a movie, it will come off as shallow, but on the other hand, if you hold back too much, there is a danger that it will become a Kamishiba. That was a difficult aspect.
Tahara:
So I made some pretty strict demands of the animators. Rather than showing it through movement, I told them to show emotion through facial expressions, for example, through a single movement of the shoulders. Also, I deliberately cut out some lines from the script. For example, in the scene where Kircheis comes to Reinhard to give his final report, there is actually a line where Reinhard responds, but I cut that out completely and asked the animators to convey the meaning of “keep going” through Reinhard’s facial expression alone.
Shudō:
Also, in the case of the high-ranking officials of the Alliance, such as Paetta and Lobos, they get so angry that they yell and bang on the table. When I was writing those scenes, I wondered whether a leader of an army, even if he was a bit of a fool, would actually do something like that. But even so, I don’t know how to portray it in any other way.
Ishiguro:
A scene where someone bangs on a desk is a common type of expression in anime. Therefore, I thought that it would be easier to understand if Paetta did something typical like that. At the very least, it’s easier to arrange.
Shudō:
Then there’s the handling of the villains, like Mückenberger and Flegel. I kept wondering if I was writing them well enough. I depicted them as very villainous, so much so that it’s obvious even when they first appear. Would a real admiral say things like they do, though? But if I didn’t write it like that, the character relationships wouldn’t come through, and I was thinking about how difficult it was while I was writing it. So I tried to at least give that admiral a cool end…
So if I were to continue doing this in the future, I think it would be difficult. Like a so-called play without a villain.
Tahara:
But that’s why we wanted to try it.
Shudō:
That being said, it’s difficult to express in anime that villains also have their own lives. In live-action, you can imply that with the presence of the actors, but that’s not the case in anime.
Ishiguro:
Compared to live-action, there is very little information. In the case of animation, you have to use the usual patterns. It is an extremely difficult task to express subtle details.
One that really bothered me was Mecklinger. He barely has any lines, he just stands there, and there’s no way to explain that he’s an artistic officer who draws pictures and plays the piano. At first, I actually ignored Mecklinger in the storyboard. If I was only going to halfway include him, I figured he’d just be standing there. But then Tahara-san was nagging me about his lines too, saying “Include them, include them” (laughs). So I did include them, but to be honest, there are some things that I included without any necessity or ideas for them. If I was going to do that, I feel like I should have discussed it first, but there were just too many things that needed to be included.
But on the other hand, the fact that there are parts that couldn’t be fully depicted means that I still have homework to do, and in a way I’m looking forward to seeing what happens next. In the end, through those kinds of exchanges, the image solidifies, and when they give us an impossible request, we have to rack our brains again. If we’re left alone in silence, we’ll all turn into characters who bang on the table.
Tahara:
However, with regards to Mecklinger, I didn’t just want him to be included just to introduce the character’s face, I really wanted him to be included with an eye to future developments. In the original work, Mecklinger is there to be beside Reinhard, to observe whether he is really someone worthy of being entrusted with the future, so I requested that this could be expressed even without lines, for example, through Mecklinger’s reactions and expressions when Reinhard and Kircheis do something.
Ishiguro:
Because you didn’t explain it to me (laughs). You just said, “Finish it, finish it” (laughs).
Tahara:
So it is like with the earlier “卿” [kei] where I decided not to use second person pronouns this time, because there will be more in the future. In other words, so that it will be consistent with what is to come.
In that regard, even though the voice actors only make brief appearances this time, we used some pretty big names, and that’s because we’re looking ahead.
Ishiguro:
That’s why I think Shiozawa-san, who played Oberstein, still doesn’t really understand why he was chosen (laughs).
Shudō:
Shiozawa-san wrote it on a New Year’s card (laughs). He asked, “What was that about?” (big laugh).
Ishiguro:
In that sense, there will probably be many things that viewers don’t understand from just this one film, but if they watch further, I think they will understand later that, yes, everything fits together after all.
Q:
Besides, this kind of work would be boring if you knew everything from the beginning.
Shudō:
On the other hand, if it was just this one entry, we could have made it more haphazardly, more flashy. Instead, we made it very carefully, so even if it looks plain at first glance, people would think there is something deeper to it. I think that those who have read the novel will understand.
Maintaining high quality through video and film
Q:
When you think about it, you might assume that Legend of the Galactic Heroes would be well suited to animation. However, it doesn’t have robots, it doesn’t have a symbolic battleship like Yamato, it doesn’t have any comic relief characters like children, and it doesn’t have any beautiful girls, so was it actually a very difficult work to present?
Ishiguro:
Almost all of the characters who appear are guys (laughs). You should have seen the dubbing studio. It reeked of men (laughs).
Shudō:
We had no choice but to make the voice on the big TV screen a girl (laughs).
Ishiguro:
There are a lot of elements like that that are difficult to depict in animation, so it doesn’t stand out at all.
Shudō:
I like to write girls, and if the series continues after this, girls will appear in this work too. I’m not sure how I will portray them when the time comes though (laughs). They’re not just cute. Even if it’s a girl with strong willpower, I can’t just write her as being uptight.
Ishiguro:
It would stand out too much.
Shudō:
If it were a live-action movie, it would be fine to cast someone like Jane Fonda or Meryl Streep, but we can’t do that. All of the girls who appear are hard to portray in anime.
Ishiguro:
There’s also the interpersonal relationships. There’s more to come, and lots of characters with complicated personalities appear, and with all the interpersonal relationships that come with them, it’s just too much to even think about. I mean, there will be 400 or 500 characters in the whole series (laughs).
Shudō:
In addition, in terms of interpersonal relationships, the novel has some really clever parts, like the relationship between Reinhard, Kircheis, and Annerose. After Kircheis dies, there’s a part where Reinhard asks Annerose, “Sister, did you love him?” Annerose responds with something like “…”. If it were a drama, it wouldn’t end with just “…” (laughs).
Tanaka:
I think so. If you write it like that in a novel, the reader will interpret it differently. In the novels, I try not to write directly about Annerose’s feelings to the best of my ability. So when I read readers’ opinions about Annerose, I can get a good idea of how they think (laughs). I’m looking forward to seeing how it will be handled in the anime.
Tahara:
It’ll be a chance for the director to show off (laughs).
Ishiguro:
Ah, how troubling… I need to simplify it a bit more before I can portray it.
Previously, my comments were published in an anime magazine, and the editor summarized what I said, saying, “This story is very simple,” so in this month’s issue, a reader wrote, “The original story isn’t that simple” (laughs). I know that. Even someone like me does (laughs). But that’s the reality, isn’t it? This time, I was able to do it because I deliberately simplified it with, “This is where it all begins.”
I wonder what to do about those complicated relationships going forward. I also worry about whether it would be possible to portray the story as the novel does, without leaning towards either the Empire or the Alliance. Since anime is driven by emotions, it’s easy to portray one side as the heroes.
Shudō:
If we did that, the story would lose its tone. In the Japanese Diet, it might not be a big deal to yell and scream, but if this story were about those kind bigwigs in control of the galaxy, it would be strange (laughs). It would lose all sense of scale.
Ishiguro:
We may as well just go ahead and call it Saint Seiya (big laugh).
Tahara:
If that happens, the Walküre will have to be transformable (laughs).
Shudō:
Annerose, Reinhard and Kircheis would run across the fields into the sunset (laughs). But then again, it would be a problem if we overdid it and it ended up looking like Visconti’s The Damned (laughs).
Ishiguro:
Anime, as a medium, is a little scary because it can easily become too raw. It’s easier to do it that way though.
Tahara:
On the other hand, from the general public’s point of view, I think that being so raw might lead to being ridiculed in a way. Our biggest concept with this work is avoiding that. I want to make an anime that can withstand the general public’s viewing.
Ishiguro:
There are some parts that are explicitly not aimed at children.
Q:
The novel has a title like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, so you’d think it was a space opera, but when you read it it’s completely different, and it contains some very meaningful expressions.
Shudō:
Exactly. That’s what’s difficult when you’re trying to turn it into a drama (laughs). As a novel, the sentences are connected, but how do you form those words into dialogue?
Ishiguro:
Also, I think there are many different types of fans of the novels. The novels do go deep into human nature, don’t they? So there are people who read it to appreciate that. On the other hand, there are probably young people who are simply happy that it’s a Manzai comedy, and maybe there are girls who just play around by imagining good-looking characters. So it’s impossible to describe them all.
Tahara:
This time it was in the form of a video release and a movie, so I think it maintained its elegance. If it had been on TV or other media, I don’t think it would have gained traction unless we came up with a better method.
Ishiguro:
In fact, if it were a TV series, it would be impossible from a production standpoint to achieve that level of elegance.
Tahara:
I see…I guess “Boléro” wouldn’t fit in just the first half part [of an episode] (laughs).
Ishiguro:
Things such as adding narration frequently or including subtitles with the characters’ names when they appear wouldn’t fit either.
Q:
But wouldn’t you say it’s precisely because it’s such a difficult project that it’s rewarding?
Ishiguro:
It’s better than doing the same old stuff over and over again. It’s an interesting way of making things, and I’m very invested in it.
Shudō:
That’s what makes it interesting.
Tahara:
The work Legend of the Galactic Heroes itself has a very universal appeal, so I think it is worth doing.
Shudō:
Yes, in terms of its universal appeal, I feel that it has a charm not yet seen in anime up until now. We mentioned earlier that it has a wide variety of fan demographics, but I would go even further and say that if it’s done well, I think it could be a work that even adults who don’t usually watch anime can enjoy. In that sense, it is very interesting material.
Inspiration from a discerning producer
Q:
Now then, we’ve brought up future developments a lot, but what exactly will those be?
Ishiguro:
In terms of content, it basically all depends on Tahara-san’s wishes. I’m relying on him.
In fact, from the very beginning of this project, Tahara-san’s desire to attempt this has been the driving force that has led everyone to this point, and his image of the work is reflected in it. Since it has produced good results, I think it would be best to continue in this form.
Tanaka:
To put it bluntly, rather than entrusting the original work to Kitty-san [Kitty Films], it would be better to say that I entrusted it to Tahara-san (laughs). Also, at the end of this work it says “This was only the beginning,” so if we don’t continue, I think the fans who have come to appreciate the goodness of the anime will be angry (laughs).
Q:
Tahara-san, you have a lot of responsibility.
Ishiguro:
Speaking of Tahara-san, I had the peace of mind that the producer for this project was in charge of the structure, or rather, that he had a firm grasp of the whole picture, so I didn’t have to worry about that at all. This is a big deal for me.
Anyway, he’s more particular than me (laughs). He’s really picky (laughs). He’d even ask for a retake just because the armband color was a little different (laughs).
Tahara:
Well, it was fun ordering the retakes (laughs).
Ishiguro:
But I think it’s good to have someone who is particular about things. On the other hand, a producer who doesn’t take charge can’t make something good. So even if we are given a difficult task, we try to give it back with an answer that exceeds their expectations. If we encourage each other in this way, we can make something good. These days, it’s common for things to be made on a familiar basis from top to bottom, so I think it’s good to impose a certain amount of tension.
In that sense, Tahara-san is still young, and I’m really looking forward to seeing what he does. So please don’t become one of those nasty producers like so many in the industry (laughs).
Tahara:
In America, when making a movie, the producer is quite careful about the content. Whether it’s Spielberg or Lucas, when they produce, it means they have to understand the content as well. In other words, it is firmly established over there that the producer is the one who thinks about both what goes in and what comes out, both the contents and the container.
Q:
In Japan, it’s common to just decide what goes in and leave the rest to the studio.
Tahara:
As a producer, I don’t want to be shocked when I see the first episode.
Shudō:
Anyway, he’s definitely a really inspiring producer (big laugh). Because I really do think so. Anyway, I have to convince him of that (laughs).
Q:
Now that we’ve heard Tahara-san’s thoughts on being a producer, let’s wrap up by saying that we look forward to seeing more exciting young producers.
Ishiguro:
That’s a good way to end it (laughs).
Translator Notes
- A “Taiga Drama” is the name NHK uses for the annual year-long historical drama television series it broadcasts in Japan
- Manzai is a traditional style of Japanese comedy involving two performers, the “straight man” and the “funny man” trading jokes with each other in quick succession. It’s similar to British double act comedy, or as you’d often hear it referred to colloquially in other media, a comedy duo.
- “Boléro” is a 1928 work for large orchestra by French composer Maurice Ravel. You can listen to it HERE.
- Likely referring to the famous “Ride of the Valkyries” composed by Richard Wagner, a musical piece that plays in the opera Die Walküre.
- While in English “you” is a standard second-person pronoun, there are a variety of them in Japanese. “卿” [kei] in particular is an archaic term. It’s honorific or respectful language used to address someone of equal or lower status.
- “きみ” [kimi], “お前” [omae], and “あなた” [anata] are other second-person pronouns like “you” in English. However, they carry different connotations and can be considered rude to use depending on who is being spoken to.
- “艦長” [kanchō] means captain (of a warship). So instead of saying “you”, Reinhard is addressing Steinmetz with his rank.
- Kamishiba literally “paper drama”, is a form of storytelling that originated in Japanese Buddhist temples in the 12th century, where monks used emakimono (picture scrolls) to convey stories with moral lessons to a mostly illiterate audience.